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that word, the auto industry of the united states at that time? >> it sounds like rhetoric. but -- and it is rhetoric, i guess, because it's words. but i think they're actually factual words. president bush and hank paulson agree because they were the first ones to provide capital to the auto industry. if the government had not stepped in, these companies would have had to literally shut their doors, they would have run out of cash, had to lay off their workers. the suppliers would have gone down. ford would have gone down. the industry would have shut down. whether it would have ultimately liquidated would depend on what would have happened after that. >> that is not the case. and in fact we got some very strong numbers earlier this week. are you surprised at the strength of auto sales at this point? >> no, i'm not surprised because you need to sell 15 million cars a year in this country simply to keep the fleet from aging. and we have not done that now for over four years. this is unprecedented in american history. so you have a huge amount of pent-up demand for cars beca
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